Spark Plug Analysis

December 23, 2020

updated 2020-12

Welcome. The photos and info below are from:
1) 1976 ND Spark Plugs Service Manual 
    The info is for pre-1977 four-stroke engines, mostly cars.

2) 1979 Haynes Honda Express Manual

Dark blue text is quoted from the manual. Dark green text is Myrons. 

The condition of the spark plug indicates both engine condition and combustion products. A new car with an unworn engine would soon have black spark plugs if a little oil or diesel fuel was added to the gas tank. The combustion of oil produces tar or soot. An old car with a worn engine might also have the same black spark plugs. The tar or soot in that case is partly from the combustion of oil that leaked past worn rings, cylinder walls and valve guides, and partly from low compression. Low compression then has many possible causes. So a spark plug analysis does not tell exactly what is wrong or right in one step. Other evidence is needed in order to make a conclusion or diagnosis.

 


1) 1976 ND Spark Plugs Service Manual 

 

NORMAL
Light grey or tan deposits indicate proper heat range. 

On mopeds this indicates a clean and proper combustion process. That means quality gasoline and quality two-stroke oil are mixed correctly and are free from dissolved contaminants such as tar. Also the engine is healthy and is operated normally.

The white porcelain insulator of a new spark plug takes awhile to became tan colored, about 50 miles.

CARBON FOULING
Dry sooty black deposits result from over rich carburetion, sticking choke, clogged air filter, poor ignition circuit, continuous low speed operation or heat range too cold. Carbon fouling is mostly affected by the air-fuel ratio. The richer the charge is, the more the spark plugs are apt to be carbon fouled. When only one spark plug in a group is carbon fouled, it is probably due to a poor ignition circuit or poor compression.

On mopeds, carbon fouling is caused by, most frequently first, stale old gasoline, fresh gasoline containing dissolved tar from a tarry gas tank, low compression, continuous low speed operation, spark plug heat range too cold, or a rich air-fuel mixture.

OIL FOULING
Wet oily deposits are usually caused by oil leaking through worn piston rings or valve guides, or engine still in “break-in” period. Oil fouling may also be caused by poor carburetion or over rich mixture.

Spark plugs cannot solve this trouble fundamentally. An engine overhaul may be necessary to correct this condition. Hotter spark plugs might help oil fouling.

On mopeds, oil fouling is caused by, most frequently first, too much two-stroke oil mixed in the gasoline, clogged exhaust, continuous low speed operation, poor quality two-stroke oil, spark plug heat range too cold, rich air-fuel mixture, or non-two-stroke oil mixed in the gasoline.

OVERHEATING
Blistered white insulator and excessively eroded electrodes are usually signs of overheating. Spark plug overheating may result from improper tightening (too loose), clogged cooling system, or improper heat range (too hot).

The overheated spark plugs will ignite the fuel-air mixture prematurely before sparking takes place across the plug gap (pre-ignition). When pre-ignition becomes really bad, the prematurely ignited charge may pop through the open inlet valve, thus producing no power but overheating the valves and other parts, which eventually are severely damaged.

 

PRE-IGNITION
On mopeds (and cars), pre-ignition (pinging) is caused by the compression ratio being too high for the octane rating of the gasoline being used. It is also caused by an overheated spark plug. Occasional light pinging is not bad, but constant or heavy pinging causes damage. The ping explosions carve out tiny craters in the top of the piston. The molten aluminum mist then coats the spark plug insulator silvery, and also the cylinder wall. Both spark plug electrodes erode from the ping explosions. The one shown is extremely bad.

 

LEAD FOULING
The lead compound and associated additives reduce pinging or knocking (pre-ignition) and help promote long valve life. But since the 1980’s lead has been banned from use in gasoline. It was found to be poisonous and to cause brain damage, especially a young child repeatedly standing next to a running car or school bus exhaust. This info about lead fouling and lead additives is from 1976 before the days of unleaded gas.

You may have experienced hesitation just after steep acceleration with the spark plugs used for a few thousand miles. There are counted many causes, but if the spark plugs have powdery or granular deposits around the insulator tip and/or at the end of the insulator tip, the hesitation is due to lead fouling.

Most of the fuels used in automobiles contain tetraethyl lead additives to improve anti-knock quality. And at the same time a halogenide is added, which helps lead compounds from combustion of such fuels to gasify easily and be emitted through the exhaust system. Furthermore phosphorous additives are mixed in the fuels to prevent the troubles of lead fouling. 

But when the temperature at the insulator tip is low, halogenide lead in gaseous state accumulates on the insulator tip. This accounts for the fact that under city driving, the accumulation of lead deposits occurs more frequently.

Such a coating on the insulator tip remains nonconductive when cold, though at high temperatures (high speed driving) it becomes conductive and provides a leakage path for the high voltage current, which eventually weakens the ignition sparks or even causes misfiring.

 

 

 


2) 1979 Haynes Honda Express Manual 


Checking the plug gap with a feeler gauge.
.

.
Altering 
the plug gap. Note use of correct tool. A small screwdriver can also be used to pry open the gap as long as it does not push against the center electrode. Instead it pushes against the outer shell.
.

NORMAL 
B
rown, tan or gray firing end is indicative of correct engine running conditions and the selection of the correct heat rating plug.
.

CARBON FOULING
Black sooty deposits indicate an over-rich fuel-air mixture, or a malfunctioning ignition system. If no improvement is obtained, try one grade hotter plug.
.

OVERHEATING
A blistered white insulator or melted electrode indicates over-advanced ignition timing or a malfunctioning cooling system. If correction does not prove effective, try a colder grade plug.
.

BURNT OIL
White deposits have accumulated from excessive amounts of oil in the combustion chamber or through the use of low quality oil. Remove deposits or a hot spot may form.
.

OIL FOULING
Wet, oily carbon deposits form an electrical leakage path along the insulator nose, resulting in misfire. The cause may be badly worn engine or a malfunctioning ignition system.
.

WORN OUT
A worn spark plug not only wastes fuel but also overloads the whole ignition system because the increased gap requires higher voltage to initiate the spark. The condition can also affect air pollution.

 

 

 

 


Indian Publications

December 19, 2020

1978 Ads

Indian Ad b&w

1978 Moped Dealer magazine ad
Tillotson carb, Indian head tank

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


1979 Ads

Indian Flyer front

Early ’79 flyer front, “The four stroke difference”
Tillotson carb, color stripes, spoke wheels

Indian Flyer back

Early ’79 back “No mixing of gas and oil”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1979 Indian Sales Brochure with debut of USA-made Sport Mag II aka “8-ray” wheels

 

 

 

 

 

 


1980 Ads

1980 Indian flyer. What’s new is bar-mount signals, Mira wheels, silver cylinder head, Mikuni cable-choke carb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1980 dealer folder with excerpt from July 1979 Moped Dealer magazine

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


1981 Ads

1981 Indian flyer. The back page is the same as the 1980 flyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Catalogs and Manuals

Indian Accessories p1

Accessories p1

Accessories p2

Accessories p2

Owners manual cover

Owners manual back

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1978 Parts Book

1979 Parts Book

7-79 Parts Book

1980 Parts Book

6-81 Supplement

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indian Service Manual 1981

 

 

 

 

 


Indian Owners Manual

December 18, 2020

Indian AMI-50 Chief Owners Manual

Cover

page 1

page 2

page 3

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 4

page 5

page 6

page 7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 8

page 9

page 10

page 11

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 12

page 13

page 14

page 15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 16

page 17

page 18

page 19

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 20

page 21

page 22

page 23

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

page 24

page 25

back cover

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Indian Engine Parts

December 13, 2020

updated 2024-05

Indian AMI-50 Chief Engine Parts

Contents:
  1. Cylinder and Head
1a. Carburetor
  2. Clutch and Cover
  3. Valves and Cam
  4. Transmission 
  5. Piston and Crank
  6. Case and Magneto

 

The 1978 Parts Book has better illustrations than the later ones. So the 1978 pictures are used here. There are no suffixes a, b, c, etc on any item numbers. So there was only one version of every part. There was no carburetor parts section (Tillotson). 

The 1979 Parts Book had some parts that came in two versions. They had an A or B after the item number, such as the carb, intake pipe, fork, fork lock and battery. Some of the 1978 item numbers changed in the 1979 and later parts manuals. There was no carburetor parts section (Tillotson or Keihin). 

The 07-1979 Parts Book had some parts that came in three versions. They had an A B or C after the item number, such as the carb, intake pipe and magneto. There was no carburetor parts section (Tillotson, Keihin or Mikuni). The page numbers were 1 to 36.

The 1980 Parts Book had some parts that came in four versions. They had an A B C or D after the item number, such as intake pipe. There was no carburetor parts section (Tillotson, Keihin or Mikuni). The page numbers were 1 to 36?

The 06-1981 Parts Supplement had the Keihin and Mikuni parts, the 79-later 2-coil magneto, and Mira mag wheel parts sections. The page numbers were 37 to 42. So it was a continuation of the previous books. It was a stack of pages to be inserted into the back of any parts manual. 

 

Indian AMI-50 with Keihin PA-MOA carb

 

 

 


1. Cylinder and Head

OHV: This type is over head valve OHV, not over head cam OHC. Head or piston replacement is easier on OHV than on OHC, because the cam and cam chain are in the bottom, out of the way.

Heads: Indians have 2 types of cast iron cylinder heads, #3 black ’78-80 and 3d silver ’80-81. Head #3 has 33mm intake bolt spacing, while 3d has 35mm. Head 3d has a more side-facing flange angle. Head 3d has valve stem seals. Head 3 did not.

Pipes: Indians have 4 types of intake pipes, 4a, 4b, 4c, 4d. The first 3 are for head #3, and so have a 33mm lower bolt hole spacing. Pipe 4d is for head 3d, and so has a 35mm lower bolt hole spacing.

1. Cylinder and Head
 # qty price  Indian part#  description
u00 1 $45.0 E000-00-50 engine gasket set
u01 1 $155  E110-00-50 cylinder new  0.007″gap
01u 1 $50.0 E110-00-50 cylinder used 0.018″gap
u02 1 $7.00 E910-00-50 cylinder base gasket
u03 1 $140. E120-00-50 head early black bare new
03u 1 $70.0 E120-00-50 head early black bare used
03d 1 none   E120-50-50 head late silver bare new
04a 1 $48.0 E220-00-50 intake ’78  Tillotson 6×33 5×31
04b 1 none   E220-20-50 intake 78-80 Keihin 6×33 6×32
04c  1 none   E220-30-50 intake 78-80 Mikuni 6×33  ∅18
04d 1 $57.0 E220-
50-50 intake 80-81 Mikuni 6×35  ∅18
04e 1 none   E220-40-50 intake 80-81 Keihin 6×35 6×32

u05 1 $25.0 E911-00-50 cylinder head gasket
u06 1 $29.0 E130-00-50 valve cover bare
06u 1 $29.0 E130-00-50 valve cover assy used
u08 1 $17.0 E912-00-50 valve cover gasket
u09 1 $16.0 E160-00-50 decomp shaft/lever
u10 1 $9.00 E162-00-50 decomp shaft spring
u11 1 $8.00 E161-00-50 decomp bracket
12a 1 $14.0 E230-00-50 insulator Tillot.  ∅5 x 31
12b 1 none   E230-20-50 insulator Keihin ∅6 x 32 
13a 2 none   E920-00-50 i. gasket use 13b ∅5 x 31 
13b 2 $2.50 E920-20-50 int. pipe gasket ∅6 x 32  

13c 1 $4.00 E920-30-50 int. head gasket ∅6 x 33 
13d 1 $4.00 E920-50-50 int. head gasket ∅6 x 35 
13c 1 $4.00 13c, 13d are 13b with holes widened 
13d 1 $4.00 by using a 1-hole paper punch ∅6
u14 1 $0.20 H106-00-50 washer M6
15a 1 none   E163-00-50 circlip decomp 7mm
15b 1 $2.00 E163-10-50 substitute
6mm widened

u16 1 $3.00 E164-11-50 o-ring ∅1.5 x 5 (8 od) 
u17 1 $1.00 H462-00-50 hex bolt M6 x 20
u18 2 $1.20 H467-10-50 hex bolt M6 x 71(70)
u19 1 $2.50 H461-00-50 hex bolt M6 x 100
u
20 1 $2.50 H461-12-50 hex bolt M6x112(110)
u21 1 $1.00 H462-80-50 hex bolt M6 x 28(30)
u22 1 $1.00 H463-20-50
 hex bolt M6 x 32(30)
u23 1 $1.20 H465-60-50 hex bolt M6 x 56(55)
u24 2 $2.00 H563-00-50 exhaust stud M6
25a 2 $2.00 H662-00-50 carb screw for Til. M5 x 55?
25b 2 $0.80 H662-20-50 carb screw for Kei. M6 x 20
26a 2 $1.00 H662-50-50 intake screw Til. M6 x 25
26b 2 $1.00 H662-20-50 intake screw Kei M6 x 20

u27 2 $3.00 E532-00-50 knock pin 8 x 12


Indian gasket set

 
Indian intake gaskets and heads

 

 Black early head #3 for all three carbs.
Intake flange faces more back. Here with pipe #4a and Tillotson carb.

Black early head #3 for all three carbs.
Intake flange faces more back. Here with pipe #4b and Keihin carb.

 Black early head #3 for all three carbs.
Intake flange faces more back. Here with pipe #4c and Mikuni carb.

Indian with Mikuni carb intake bolts fase more outward Silver late head #3d for Mikuni carburetor.
Intake flange faces less back. Requires pipe #4d and Mikuni carb.

 

 


1a. Carburetor

Some 1978 Indians had a Tillotson “no-float” (12mm) carb, with choke lever on carb.
Some 1978, most 1979 had a Keihin PA-MOA (10mm) carb, with choke lever on carb.
Some ’79 and ’80, all 1981 had a Mikuni H9-10 (10mm) carb, choke lever on handlebar.

 

Tillotson Carburetor Parts (none)
Info on parts and service is now offered in the Carburetor/Mikuni and Tillotson section.

Keihin Carburetor Parts
Most Keihin carburetor parts for Indian are now offered in the Carburetor/Keihin section.

Mikuni Carburetor Parts
Some Mikuni carburetor parts for Indian are now offered in Carburetor/Mikuni and Tillotson.

 


2. Cover and Clutch

2. Cover and Clutch photo courtesy of cmsnl.com
 # qty price  Indian part#  description
u01 1 none   E511-00-50 right case cover
u02 1 $10.0 E930-00-50 clutch cover gasket
u0
3 1 $3.00 E314-00-50 sprocket distance collar
u0
4 1 $10.0 E537-00-50 dip stick
u05 1 $65.0 E310-00-50 drum & drive gear ??T
u0
6 1 $7.00 E315-00-50 clutch center guide
u0
7 1 none   E312-00-50 starter friction plate
u0
8 1 none   E313-00-50 clutch assembly
u
8a 2 $6.00 E313-10-50 clutch spring
u
8b 2 $1.50 E313-20-50 clutch e-clip 6mm
u
8c 2 none   E313-30-50 clutch shoe
u
8d 1 none   E313-40-50 clutch hub
u0
9 1 $12.0 E311-00-50 ball retainer
u
10 1 none   T108-54-50 driven gear 54T
u
11 1 none   T117-00-50 engage slider shaft
u
12 1 none   E534-00-50 engage lever knob
u13 1 $2.00 H214-00-50 clutch nut M14x1
u
14 1 $3.00 H114-00-50 lock washer M14 spec
u
15 1 $7.00 H117-00-50 thrust washer 17.1-22.8-1.0
u
16 1 none   E153-00-50 engage washer 5 x 30
u
17 3 $0.50 E316-00-50 starter balls Ø7.9 = 5/16″
u18 1 $5.00 E535-00-50 engage shaft seal 5x30x6
u
19 1 $1.00 E536-00-50 dip stick o-ring
u
20 2 $0.80 H662-00-50 phillips bolt M6 x 20
u
21 2 $1.00 H662-50-50 phillips bolt M6 x 25
u
22 1 $1.00 H663-20-50 phillips bolt M6 x 32(30)
u
23 5 $1.00 H667-50-50 phillips bolt M6 x 75
u
24 1 $1.20 H668-50-56 phillips bolt M6 x 85
u25 2 $3.00 E532-00-50 knock pin 8 x 12

 

 

1. Trans, clutch, cam parts  2. Clutch Parts

 

 


3. Valves and Camshaft

3. Valves and Cam
 # qty price  Indian part#  description
u01 1 none   E405-00-50 oil pump bush 17.5mm
u02 2 none   E406-00-50 set plate for bush
u03 1 $55.0 E401-00-50 cam w/sprocket 30T
u05 1 $16.0 E403-00-50 cam chain #25 x 42L
u06 2 none   E416-00-50 push rod ∅4.5 x 139
u07 2 $7.00 E417-00-50 rocker arm
u08 2 $5.00 E418-00-50 rocker arm pivot
u09 1 none   E404-00-50 chain tensioner
u10 1 none   E407-00-50 tensioner spring
u11 1 $15.0 E410-11-50 int. valve (same as ex)
11a 1 $17.0 14711-081-020 Honda int. valve
u12 1 $22.0 E410-12-50 ex. valve (same as in)

12a 1 $25.0 14721-081-020 Honda ex. valve
u13 2 $8.00 E411-00-50 lifter
u14 2 $8.00 E412-00-50 valve spring
u15 2 $2.00 E413-00-50 valve spring retainer
u16 4 none   E414-00-50 valve keeper (cotter)
u17 1 none   E415-00-50 push rod guide plate
u18 1 none   E430-00-50 oil pump inner rotor
u19 1 none   E431-00-50 oil pump outer rotor
u20 1 none   E432-00-50 oil pump shaft A
u21 1 none   E433-00-50 oil pump shaft B
u22 2 $5.00 E419-00-50 rocker bolt M6-0.50
u23 2 $8.00 E420-00-50 lock nut M6-0.50 x 4

u24 1 $0.20 H106-00-50 washer M6
u25 1 none   E434-00-50 oil pump washer
u26 1 $2.00 H161-70-50 wide washer M6 x 17
u
27 1 $0.80 H661-20-50 phillips bolt M6 x 12
u28 2 none   H661-40-50 phillips bolt M6 x 14
u29 1 $0.80 H661-50-50 phillips bolt M6 x 16
u30 1 $4.00 A610-23-50 spark plug NGK C7HSA
u30 1 $4.00 A610-23-60 hotter plug NGK C6HSA

u
31 2 $7.00 E511-00-50 valve seal only for head 3d
u32 2 $7.00 E510-00-50 seal cup  only for head 3d

 Head and valve parts
1. Head #3d with seals  2. Head and valve parts


Valve seals are for #3d head only

No valve guides: Both the head #3 ’78-80 and the head #3d ’80-81 have no replaceable valve guides, just precision holes and spring seats cut into the solid cast iron. When the holes get worn the whole head has to be replaced.

No valve seals: Head #3 did not have valve seals #31 or cups #32. It had no facility for holding valve seals. Indian engines with un-worn valve stem holes do not need seals. Indian’s mid-70’s relatives Honda PF50 and QR50 did not have them. But old engines with worn valve holes do need seals. Oil creeps down the valve stem, and is then burned. Burned 4-stroke oil smells, smokes, and blackens spark plugs.

Valve seals: Only the later ’80-81 head #3d had valve seals. The built-in valve guides outer diameter was reduced from 9.9 to 9.0 mm to allow a thin seal cup to fit inside the lower end of the 10.0 mm ID valve spring.

 


4. Transmission Shafts

4. Transmission shafts
 # qty price  Indian part#  description

u01 1 none   T101-00-50 main shaft
u02 1 none   T102-00-50 counter shaft
u0
3 1 $19.0 T110-15-50 sprocket 15T used
0
3a 1 $24.0 T110-16-50 bigger sprocket 16T
0
3b 1 $140 T110-14-50 smaller sprocket 14T 
0
3c 1 none   T110-11-50 smallest sprocket 11T
u0
4 1 none   T103-00-50 engage push pin
u0
5 1 none   T104-00-50 engage coil spring
u0
6 1 $15.0 T111-29-50 pedal ratchet sprocket
u07 1 $40.0 T105-00-50 pedal shaft
u09 2 $4.00 T106-00-50 pedal ratchet pawl
u
10 2 $4.00 T107-00-50 pawl spring
u
11 2 $7.00 H117-00-50 thrust washer 17.1-22.8-1.0
u
12 1 $2.00 H115-00-50 push pin disk Ø14.8 x 1.7
u13 4 $1.50 H120-00-50 pedal washer Ø20 x 30? 
u
14 3 none  T114-00-50 seal 20x30x6 
u
14 3 $6.50 T114-subst. seal 20x30x5
u
15 5 $1.00 T115-10-50 circlip (snap ring) 20-outer
u
16 1 $1.00 T115-20-50 circlip (snap ring) 10-inner
u
17 1 $8.00 T116-00-50 bearing 6004, 20x42x12


White ratchet “springs” and trans parts.

Indian pedal ratchet pawl springs, early spring steel leaf type, often broke. That caused the pedals to freewheel both ways, but the engine could still be push-started. The upgrade springs for 1979-later were silicone rubber. The good thing is those never break. The bad thing is the pedal chain and ratcheting sprocket are trapped in the center of the engine cases, and cannot be serviced without engine removal and complete disassembling, with splitting of the crankcases. 

Indian front sprockets fit on many small Honda models, like early Honda 90, but not early Honda 50. They have 6 splines, 17mm inner by 20mm outer diameter. A normal Indian goes 27mph with a 15 tooth. With more power it could go 29mph with a 16T. With less power, or with quicker take-off, it could go 25mph with a 14T.

 


5. Piston and Crankshaft

5. Piston and crankshaft 
 # qty price  Indian part#  description

u01 1 none   E600-00-50 crankshaft complete
u02 1 $39.0 E660-00-50 ring set std 42.00
02a 1 $39.0 E660-10-50 ring set 1os 42.25
02b 1 none   E660-20-50 ring set 2os 42.50
02c 1 none   E660-30-50 ring set 3os 42.75
02d 1 none   E660-40-50 ring set 4os 43.00
u03 1 $48.0 E650-00-50 pist bare std 42.00 
03a 1 $48.0 E650-10-50 pist bare 1os 42.25  
03b 1 none   E650-20-50 pist bare 2os 42.50  
03c 1 none   E650-30-50 pist bare 3os 42.75  
03d 1 none   E650-40-50 pist bare 4os 43.00
03x 1 none  6131 piston complete std 42.00  
3xa 1 none  6132 piston complete 1os 42.25   
3xb 1 none   6133 piston complete 2os 42.50   
3xc 1 none   6134 piston complete 3os 42.75    
3xd 1 none   6135 piston complete 4os 43.00 

u04 1 $12.0 E651-00-50 piston pin ∅13 x 33
u05 2 $2.00 E652-00-50 piston pin clip ∅13
u06 1 none   E601-00-50 con. rod w/pin
u07 1 none   E602-00-50 roller retainer cage
u08 1 none   E603-10-50 right half of crank
u09 1 none   E603-20-50 left half of crank
u10 1 none   E604-00-50 crank pin
u11 1 $12.0 E610-15-50 timing sprocket 15T
u12 1 none   E605-00-50 sprocket pin ∅? x ?
u13 1 $7.00 E606-00-50 flywheel key 3x4.6×12.2
u14 20 none E607-00-50 rod bearing roller 2.5×8.5
u15 1 $7.00 E611-00-50 L crank seal 15x25x6
u16 1 $10.0 E608-00-50 L bearing 6202 15x35x11
u
17 1 $9.00 E609-00-50 R bearing 6203 17x40x12


Cylinder, piston, rings

 

 


6. Case and AC generator

There were two types, made in Taiwan by WTEMCO.
1978-79 had a 3-wire, 4-coil (3 for lights, 1 for ignition)
1980-81 had a 3-wire, 2-coil (1 for lights, 1 for ignition)

6. Case and Dynamo
 # qty price  Indian part#  description
u01 1 none   E512-00-50 right case half
u0
2 1 $6.00 E931-00-50 case center gasket
u0
3 1 none   E513-00-50 left case half 
u0
4 1 none   E521-00-50 dynamo cover maybe Sachs?
u0
5 1 $14.0 D110-00-50 3-piece points M19A

u0
6 1 none   D111-00-50 felt wiper
u0
7 1 $1.20 D112-00-50 points screw M4x10 phillips
u0
8 1 $0.20 D113-00-50 lock washer M4 
u0
9 1 $0.20 D114-00-50 washer M4
u
10 1 none   D115-00-50 ignition coil 4C blue
10a 1 none   D115-10-50 ignition coil 2C blue
u
11 1 none   D120-00-50 magneto 4C (4-coil) 
11a 1 $240  D120-10-50 magneto 2C (2-coil)
11b 1 $120 D120-stator stator assy WTEMCO

u12 1 $140  D117-00-50 flywheel WTEMCO
u
13 1 none   D116-00-50 ltg coils (3) 4C lt grn+yel
13a 1 none   D116-10-50 lighting coil 2C lt grn+yel
u
14 1 none   D118-00-50 rubber grommet
u
15 1 none   D119-00-50 clamp for cord
u
16 1 none   E538-00-50 sealing bolt M8x15
u
17 1 $2.00 H210-00-50 flywheel nut M10-1.25 
u
18 1 $1.00 E553-00-50 seal washer M12
u
19 1 $0.20 H000-00-50 washer M8
u
20 1 $1.00 D121-00-50 flywheel washer 10x?
u
21 1 $5.00 E531-00-50 drain plug M12-1.5×15
u
22 4 $0.50 H000-00-50 coil bolt M4 x 22(23) slot
u
23 3 $1.20 H000-00-50 case bolt M6x36(35) phil
u
24 1 $2-$1 H000-00-50 case bolt M6 x 45 phil
u
25 4 $3.00 E532-00-50 knock pin 8 x 12mm
u
26 1 none   D122-00-50 back plate for 4-coil
26a 1 none   E122-00-50 back plate for 2-coil
u27 1 $12.0 H000-00-50 condenser M36
u28 3 $0.80 H000-00-50 stator screws M4x15


Magneto and ignition parts

 

Indian 4-coil Magneto
Indian 4-coil Magneto

 

Indian 2-coil Magneto
Indian 2-coil Magneto

 

The WTEMCO magneto is similar to a 90mm Bosch magneto, like on Puch mopeds. The points, condenser are Bosch compatible. The original points are the older style 3-piece kind, identified by the e-clip. By removing the screw-in post, newer style one-piece Bosch points will replace the older 3-piece ones. The WTEMCO flywheel timing angle is close to Tomos, which is different than Puch.

 

 


♥Indian♥ Menu

December 13, 2020

Select:    Indian Models    Publications

Engine Parts          Non-Engine Parts

Service Topics         Owners Manual

 


made in Taiwan

 

 


History

The history of the original Indian motorcycle began in 1897. Read Mark Daniels excellent article “The Fall”, the full history of Indian, at http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/articles5/art0084.html. This is the best Indian History article ever!

History of the Indian Four Stroke Moped:  Around 1977 American Moped Associates (AMA) purchased the Indian trademark from bankruptcy court for $10,000. 

Indian Info Sheet from 2002

Indian Info Sheet from 2002

American Moped Associates designed the Indian moped and got Merida Industry in Taiwan to produce it.

AMA designed the frame, bought the tooling and rights from Honda, and got Merida to produce it.

1973 Honda PC50

1975-77 Honda PC50K1
later OHV engine
(not overhead cam)
same engine as Indian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excerpt from Mark Daniels “The Fall” article: Across the East China Sea in Japan, Honda had decided to discontinue its old four-stroke mopeds and replace these with new two-stroke models.  Following a 10-year production run, the PC50-K1 was pensioned off in February 1977 … but the engine design and a number of cycle ancillary components were licensed on to AMA to manufacture again at their Merida factory in Taiwan. The result was the Indian AMI50 ‘Chief’, which first appeared on sale in 1978. Now it’s fairly obvious there are some people who’re going to say this is just a PC50 come back to haunt us, but it’s really not!  The engine is clearly a mirror design, but absolutely everything has been re-made, and not a single original Japanese Honda PC50 component or fitment has been employed.  It’s a completely new motor manufactured to the licensed blueprint, and everything is different.

Leone Accessories Catalog Jan 1982

Leone Accessories Catalog Jan 1982

 More about early 1970’s  Honda PF50 and PC50 versions is here: http://www.geocities.ws/motorcity/9748/pf50_eng_general.html

American Moped Associates had many accessories made with the Indian name, Indian saddlebags, Indian tools, Indian batteries, Indian carburetor cleaner, Indian cable locks, Indian shirts, Indian belt buckles, Indian patches, Indian decals, Indian lighted signs, Indian banners, Indian bin box labels, even Indian tires (made by Cheng Shin), and the optional aluminum 8-ray wheels made in USA by Sport Mag II. AMA had planned a 2-speed transmission for the 1981 redesigned Indian mopeds, but it never came to be. American Moped Associates, at 1852 Langley Ave, Irvine CA 92714, sold out to Carmen Deleone and his Leone Accessories company in 1982.

Leone Accessories had Indian saddlebags, Indian boxes, Indian shirts, Indian belt buckles, Indian patches, Indian decals, and the optional aluminum 8-ray wheels made in USA by Sport Mag II. Carmen Deleone only bought American Moped out for the use of the Indian name, as the mopeds were sold down and not produced. That’s why there are no 1982 or later Indian mopeds. Leone Accessories, about a year later, acquired Derbi Motor Corporation of America (DMCA). See Derbi Parts for more info on that.

While the wholesale sales of Spanish made Derbi mopeds went well, DMCA’s plans for a new Indian moped and full size Indian motorcycle for 1984 failed miserably. A few Manco go-karts were sold with “Indian 4-stroke” stickers affixed. Then the Indian name was sold off. DMCA continued to import and distribute Derbi mopeds, made in Spain, to USA moped dealers, and to supply Indian moped parts and accessories until 1989-90.

1975 Merida MC100 motocross Does this fork remind you of the Indian fork?

1975 Merida MC100 
This motocross bicycle fork looks like the moped fork.

Merida IndusMeridatry Company was started in Yuanlin (Taiwan) in Sept 1972 by Ike Tseng (1932-2012). Ike was annoyed at the poor quality of Taiwan made bicycles in 1971. It was so bad that some American bike shops at the time refused to repair Taiwan bikes, because they would not stay fixed. Pedal hard and the pressed-together DNB rear 10-speed hub would twist, throwing the rim out of true. Much of the steel was soft and weak, so on threaded things, even normal tightening would strip the threads. Ike Tseng was smart enough, as both an engineer and a business person, and determined to improve the quality of Taiwan bicycles. He also had connections in the US. Who ever started American Moped Associates probably knew Ike Tseng and/or his high-quality-Taiwan-bicycle company. 

Excerpt from http://www.merida.com/en_int/about-us-94.html, what “Merida” means, as told by Michael Tseng, current CEO and son of Ike Tseng: The man whose life motto was “move with passion and courage” chose the name “Merida” intentionally: The rough translation of the three syllables “Me-Ri-Da” means that the company’s intention is to manufacture only beautiful and high-quality products enabling anyone to reach her or his destination as pleasantly as possible. 

Excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merida_BikesMerida Industry Co., Ltd (MIC) is a Taiwan-based bicycle designmanufacture, and sales company. It was started in 1972 by Ike Tseng. The original layout was based on the Raleigh Nottingham factory as Merida began by making Raleigh bikes for the North American market. Ike was a very talented engineer, and the company grew as a well-respected OE manufacturer making many well-respected brands. Ike died in January 2012, the company is now run by his son Michael Tseng.

Merida is a glMerida 2014obal player in bicycle design and manufacturing, making 2.2 million bicycles a year at 5 factories: 1 in Taiwan, 3 in China and 1 in Germany. As at 2012 the company is a public listed company on the Taiwanese stock exchange, quoted at approximately £350 million, making it one of Taiwan’s biggest companies.

1982 Merida MX280 BMX racing bicycle

1982 Merida MX280
BMX racing bicycle

Merida now produces mainly its own Merida-branded bikes, which are present in 67 countries around the world, or selected brands which it has a financial interest in, e.g. the German brand Centurion. In 2001, Merida bought 49% of Specialized for a reported US$30 million, although its CEO and founder Mike Sinyard remained majority owner.

Merida has been co-sponsor of the Multivan Merida Biking Team, with athletes such as Jose Hermida and Gunn-Rita Dahle Flesjå, and of bicycle racing events such as the TransUK and TransWales mountain bike races. Since 2004, the team has been scoring over 30 World Cup wins as well as Olympic gold and silver medals. In 2013 Merida became co-sponsors of the Pro-Tour Lampre-Merida road racing team.

 

 

 


Other Resources

Here is a link to a Moped Army forum with some Indian manuals, articles, brochures, and (maybe) parts sources:

http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,232645,232645#msg-232645

 

 

 

 


Bing Magnum X

December 11, 2020

 Puch Magnum X 8.  B I N G    M A G N U M – X    C A R B S

This carb size is 17 mm instead of 14 or 12. It looks like a Kreidler Bing, but is larger.

Bing 17mm replica carb for Puch Magnum X
1. modern replica, identified by gold screws and nuts. 2. ’63 Sears Allstate Compact original with dark grey screws and nuts. 3. ’79 Puch Magnum X

Here 5 parts lists are combined into one, using 5 quantity columns.

1. 361.115.0000/90  ∅17 jet 90 Bing 1/17/54
on ’61-64 Allstate Sport 60 =Puch SM60

2. 361.115.0000?/?? ∅17 jet ??  Bing 1/17/??
on ’61-66 Allstate Compact =Puch DS60

3. 368.215.2000/80 ∅17 jet 80 Bing 1/17/??
on ’65-66 Sears Cheyenne =Puch SM60

4. 368.215.2000/??  ∅17 jet ??  Bing 1/17/89
on ’65-67 Sears Sabre =Puch VZ50M

5. 368.415.2000/84  ∅17 jet 84 Bing 1/17/169 
on ’77-79 Puch Magnum X (E50 engine)

 
Left 1. ’61-64 Allstate Sport 60. Right 5. ’77-79 Puch Magnum X

12345 fig 361.1.15.000.0/90  price   1/17/xx carburetor
10000 00 361.1.15.000.0/90 none  Bing 1/17/54   jet 90
01000 00 361.1.15.000.0?/??none  Bing 1/17/??    jet ??
00100 00 368.2.15.200.0/80 none  Bing 1/17/??    jet 80
00010 00 368.2.15.200.0/??  none  Bing 1/17/89   jet ??
00001 00 368.4.15.200.0/84 none  Bing 1/17/169 jet 84
11110 01 050.1520 000000 $4.00 adjuster M5 with nut
00001 02 337.115.1201 000  $2.00 cable boot Dellorto 1476A
11110 03 350.1.15.018.1 0   none  cable pipe
00001 03 328.1.15.120.1 0   $5.00 cable adjuster
11111 04 26779 0000000     $2.50 lock nut M6-0.75
11111 05 362.1.15.019.2 0   $15.0 carb top good-used bare
11111 06 362.1.15.029.1 0   none  carb top gasket
11111 07 362.1.15.031.1 0   $7.00 throttle spring Ø13 x 58
11111 08 362.1.15.014.1 0   $1.00 throttle washer Ø13 x 0.5
11111 09 362.1.15.013.1 0   $2.00 throttle needle clip
11000 10 362.1.15.016.1 0   none  throttle needle 40mm
00111 10 368.1.15.816.1 0   none  throttle needle 40mm 2-mark
11111 11 362.1.15.015.1 0   none  throttle slide #2 Ø18.5
11111 12 362.1.15.001.2 0   none  carb body bare
11111 13 362.1.15.024.1 0   $8.00 float bowl
11110 14 362.1.15.025.2 0   $16.0 float early not-slotted
00001 14 362.2.15.025.2 0   $15.0 float slotted
11110 15 362.1.15.026.1 0   $39.0 float needle metal tip
00001 15 362.2.15.026.1 0   $15.0 float needle rubber tip
11111 16 362.1.15.027.1 0   $4.00 float hinge pin
11111 17 362.1.15.028.1 0   $3.50 float gasket 45 x 41 x 1.5
00000 18 362.1.15.008.1/12 $15.0 needle jet 2.12A
00000 18 362.1.15.008.1/17 $15.0 needle jet 2.17
00001 18 362.1.15.008.1/20 none  needle jet 2.20
00000 18 362.1.15.008.1/22 $8.00 needle jet 2.22
00000 19 362.1.15.009.1/79 $4.00 jet 3.5 generic #72 0.72  mm
00100 19 362.1.15.009.1/80 none  jet 3.5 original #80 0.724 mm
00000 19 362.1.15.009.1/81 none  jet 3.5 generic #73 0.73  mm
00000 19 362.1.15.009.1/82 $4.00 jet 3.5 generic #74 0.74  mm
00001 19 362.1.15.009.1/84 none  jet 3.5 original #84 0.762 mm
10000 19 362.1.15.009.1/90 none  jet 3.5 original #90 0.813 mm
11111 20 362.1.15.038.1 0   $12.0 fuel inlet
11111 21 900.3702 000000 $1.00 seal washer 8 x 12
11111 22 362.1.15.037.2 0   $15.0 fuel strainer
11111 23 362.1.15.063.1 0   none  choke rod 29mm
11111 24 362.1.15.064.1 0   $15.0 choke rod clip
11111 25 362.1.15.065.1 0   $10.0 choke slide
22222 26 050.1535 000000 none  top screw M5 x 10 thin not M4
22222 26 050.1535 000000 $2.00 substitute M5 x 10 thin shank
11111 27 362.1.15.011.1 0   none  idle screw M6 x 0.75 not M5
11111 28 362.1.15.012.1 0   none  idle screw spring
11111 29 126.1513 000000 none  clamp screw M6 x 18 thin
11111 29 126.1513 000000 $3.00 clamp screw M6 x 20 thin
10100 32 368.1.15.033.1 0   none  intake pipe SM60
10100 33 368.1.15.021.1 0   none  intake spacer SM60
20200 34 368.1.15.022.1 0   none  intake gasket SM60
22222 35 24773  0000000     $0.30 intake nut M6
22222 36 900.3456 000000 $0.20 intake washer M6

 

 

Bing Magnum-X cut away

Here is a beautiful cut-away grey-scale illustration, from the Danish website veteranknallertklub.dk. This “Magnum X” type Bing has the all-metal float needle, not rubber-tip push-pull type 15. The float has no slot because it only pushes on the needle. The Puch Magnum-X Bing above has the rubber-tip float needle that has a T top that slides into a slot in the float. On that kind, the float can push and pull on the needle. The all-metal type is on older Bings.

This older Bing has a screw-in idle air jet 33. The Magnum X version has a pressed-in idle air jet, not replaceable. This helps to break up the liquid gasoline into smaller droplets, like a mist. 

 

 

 


Bing 15, 17 and 18

December 11, 2020
 

Austro Daimlerbing crown7.  B I N G    T Y P E  1 8,  1 7,  and  1 5
12 or 14mm     clamp size 23mm

Steyr-Daimler-Puch was so proud of the replacement for the Maxi, that they named it after their hand crafted performance bicycle line, and their 1899-1934 Austrian automobile name, Austro-Daimler. Not much on the 1984-86 Puch A-D was the same as the elderly Maxi. These Bing “Type 18” 12mm carburetors (18/12/206 and 18/12/207) are 1990’s technology. Notice the light throttle spring, possible with modern nylon lined cables and low friction throttle parts.

A Bing “Type 18” 14mm carb (18/14/180) was also on the 1995-96 Manet-Puch Korado.

A Bing “Type 17” is like a Type 18, but the float needle is different.

A Bing “Type 15” is the same as “Type 18”, except it has a 55mm bell in front, for an air box.

# qty  Puch part #   price   description   a is A-D  k is Korado
0    1 000.000.0000   N/A   carb 15/12/100S 

1a  1 345.415.6000   N/A   carb 18/12/107 Puch A-D 2.0hp
1a  1 345.315.6000   N/A   carb 18/12/106 Puch A-D 1.5hp
1    1 000.000.0000   N/A   carb 18/12/118 
1    1 000.000.0000   N/A   carb 18/14/104 Zundapp CS,CX
1k  1 0000.000.01k   N/A   carb 18/14/180 Manet Korado 2.0hp
2k  1
0000.000.02k   N/A   choke cable adjuster M7-0.75
2a  1 321.215.4181 $12.0 choke elbow M7-0.75 Bing Sachs 12
2a1 1 321.115.4211   N/A   rubber boot
2a2 1 000.000.0000 $5.00 cable adjuster M6-0.75
2a3 1 000.000.0000 $2.50 adjuster nut M6-0.75
3
k  1 0000.000.03k    N/A   throttle cable adjuster M7-0.75
3a1 1 321.115.4181 $8.00 throttle cable pipe elbow smooth
3a1 1 321.115.4171 $1.00 pipe elbow nut M7-0.75
3a2 1 000.000.0000 $5.00 cable adjuster M6-0.75
3a3 1 000.000.0000 $2.50 adjuster nut M6-0.75

4    2 000.900.9114 $1.00 top screw M4 x 12 phillips
5k  1 0000.000.05k   N/A   top cover, both threaded M7-0.75
5a  1 321.115.4191   N/A   top cover, choke threaded M7-0.75
6    1 321.115.4291   N/A   top gasket
7    1 321.115.4061   N/A   throttle spring Ø13 x ??
8    1 321.115.4141   N/A   spring cup  has nylon slide tab
9    1 362.115.0131 $2.00 jet needle clip Bing Puch 5
10  1 330.115.0161 $18.0 jet needle 36mm Bing Puch 4a
11  1 ..115.4151/13   N/A   throttle slide Ø16.5 diff. slot angle
12  1 321.115.4641   N/A   choke spring
13  1 321.115.4652   N/A   choke slide
14  1 000.900.9114 $0.70 inlet screw M4-0.7 x 16           
15  1 321.115.4391   N/A   seal washer 4 x 8 x 0.5
16  1 321.115.4381   N/A   inlet banjo (bigger)
17  1 321.115.4371   N/A   fuel filter
18k1 0000.000.18k    N/A   idle mixture screw o-ring
19k1 0000.000.19k    N/A   idle mixture screw
20  1 321.115.4121   N/A   idle speed screw spring         
21
  1 321.115.4111   N/A   idle speed screw
22  1 345.115.5291 $3.00 clamp screw M6 Bing Puch 28 
23  1 321.115.4071   N/A   o-ring for needle jet

24k  0000.000.24k    N/A   pilot jet
25  1 ..115.4081/26   N/A   needle jet 2.26
26  1 ..315/0091/54   none 4.0 main jet #54 (2.0hp)
26  1 ..315.0091/52 $8.00 4.0 main jet #52 (1.5hp)
29  3 D07.985.0212 $0.50 bowl screw M4 x 16 phillips
30  1 000.900.9886   N/A   air filter hose clamp
31  1 321.215.4281 $12.0 float bowl gasket
32  1 362.215.0262 $15.0 float needle Bing Puch 20
33  1 321.115.4252  N/A   float 35 x 26 x 15.5
34  1 321.115.4271 $3.00 hinge pin Ø2.5 x 25
35  1 321.115.4242   N/A   float bowl 3-screw for Puch A-D, Korado
36  1 000.000.0000   N/A   float bowl 3-screw with choke jet

Bing 18/14/180 on Manet-Puch Korado

 

 

 

 

Bing 18-12-118 carb

Bing 18/12/118 carb

Bing 18-12-118 carb

Bing 18/12/118 carb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bing 17/14/122 on 1979 KTM (Canada model)

 

This Bing type 17 from a 1979 KTM has a float needle with a wire “tail” that hooks onto the float. Later Bing type 18 had a regular float needle like on most 1970’s Bings, with a “flat top” that the float both pushes and pulls. The Bing 17 and 18 floats are the same. The Bing 18 float needle works fine on a Bing 17. Bing 18 is a later version from the mid-1980’s.

 

 

 

 

 


Bing Allstate

December 11, 2020

bing crown Sears Allstate 6.  B I N G    A L L S T A T E     C A R B S

There are 3 Bing 12mm carburetors on Sears Allstate mopeds.

1. 050.1.1500.2/58  ∅12 jet 58, cable choke (1-ended cable)
for M1 engine with intake silencer (air box) Puch MS50

on ’56-58 Mo-Ped 810.94000, 810.94001
on ’63-64 Econo Mo-Ped 810.94011, 810.94018

3. 364.1.15.001.0/62  ∅12 jet 62, cable choke (2-ended cable)
for M3 engine with no intake silencer Puch MS50V

on ’58-61 Mo-Ped 810.94010, 810.94019  
on ’59-61 Mo-Ped 810.94020  
on ’62-63 Mo-Ped 810.94030, 810.94039
on ’64-65 Mo-Ped 810.94040, 810.94049 

6. 360.1.15.500.0/62  ∅12 jet 62, lever choke (no choke cable)
for M6 engine with no intake silencer Puch MS50VDK

on ’64-65 Campus 50 810.94090, 810.94099

 Allstate Bing
136 fig  00.00.000.0/00 price  
100 050.1.1500.2/58 0  none  M1 carb ∅12 jet 58, cable choke

010 364.1.15.001.0/62  none  M3 carb ∅12 jet 62, cable choke
001 360.1.15.500.0/62  none  M6 carb ∅12 jet 62, lever choke

111 01 050.1520 000    $4.00 cable adjuster A1b M5-0.80
111 02 900.2115 000    $0.40 adjuster nut M5-0.80 =050.1517
111 03 050.1519 000    none  top cover outer M18-1.0
111 04 050.1518 000    none  top inner with tube bend M6-0.75
111 05 050.1531 0000  $10.0 throttle spring
111 06 050.1513 0000  $3.00 throttle needle clip
011 6a 350.1.15.014.1  none  throttle disc ∅11 x 0.5
111 07 050.1516 000    none  throttle needle (state 1 or 2 marks)
111 07 050.0516 000    none  throttle needle 31mm 1-mark
111 08 050.1515 000    none  throttle slide (state #)
111 08 050.1515 000    $33.0 throttle slide #16
111 09 050.1555 000    none  choke spring
111 10 050.1552 000    none  choke shoulder screw
011 11 050.1529 000    none  air filter clip
011 12 050.1540.2 00   $22.0 air filter screen
100 14 050.1558 000    none  choke pinch screw

010 15 350.4.15.056.1  none  choke cable nipple
110 16 050.1559 000    none  choke locking plate
110 17 050.1553 000    none  choke slide
100 18 050.1509/58      none  main jet size 58
011 18 050.1509/62      none  main jet size 62
222 19 050.1535 000    $1.30 float top screw M4 x 10 slot
100 20 050.1532 000    none  float top with seat
011 20 364.1.15.032.2  none  float top with seat and tickler
111 21 050.1536 000    none  float chamber gasket
111 22 050.1530 000    none  float needle (no bulb)
111 23 050.1525 000    none  float bulb (no needle)
110 24 050.10.1501 0   none  carburetor body bare
222 25 900.1107 000    $1.00 hex bolt M6 x 25
222 26 24804 000000   $0.20 plain washer M6
111 27 050.1521 0000  $9.00 intake gasket/heat block
111 28 050.1508 000    none  needle jet (state #)  Bing Jawa 14,15
111 29 27071 00000     $1.50 seal washer 10 x 14mm
111 30 050.1523 000    none  screw plug M10-1.0
111 31 050.1511 000    $7.00 idle screw M4-0.7
111 32 24771 00000     $0.40 idle screw nut M4-0.7
100 33 050.1570.0 00   none  intake silencer complete
100 00 050.1574 000    none  spring for air filter
100 00 050.1575 000    $0.80 washer ∅3 ∅6 x 1
200 34 3770 000000     $0.80 washer ∅5 ∅9 x 1
200 35 900.1323 000    $0.80 screw M5 x 40 slot
100 36 050.1576 000    none  seal ring ∅52 ∅45 x 2
100 37 050.1.1577 00   none  junction sleeve
100 38 050.1540.2 00   $22.0 air filter screen

 

 
 
 
Allstate Bing Diagram

Here is a beautiful cut-away illustration from the Danish website veteranknallertklub.dk. The venturi is 12mm diameter. The curved pipe is about 13mm. The jet and jet holder are a single piece, like the Bing “early Sachs”. The choke cable and plate are the same as Bing “Solo”, with a “carb” end on the choke cable. The screw-on top cap is M18x1.0 thread and M6x0.75 cable elbow/stop, Ø14.5 slide with slot facing the intake (like other early Bings), and jet needle, are interchangeable with Bing “Solo” and Bing “Jawa or early Sachs”.

From the left drawing, sliced vertically front to back, you can see the little pin that locates the throttle slide, near where the choke cable comes in at. Like the other early Bings “Solo” and “Jawa”, the slot in the throttle slide faces the intake, so the throttle slides interchange (but not with “1970’s Sachs” and “Kreidler”). 

  
 

Puch used this Bing “Allstate” 12mm carburetor on the MS50 (Moped Stahlblech – steel sheet) series from the 1950’s to the 1970’s. In 1969 Puch indroduced the Maxi moped, with an all new carburetor design. That carburetor, called Bing “Puch” or “round Bing” was in use from 1969 to 1986. It is way more familiar to Americans because of the moped buying frenzy in the late 1970’s. In the early 1980’s Puch developed their advanced technology future moped. But sales were down, and something like internal fraud contributed to Puch going out of business after over a century. If they had kept going, we would have an abundance of parts for the Bing “Austro Daimler” carburetor.

 

Bing Jawa

December 11, 2020

bing crown5.  B I N G   J A W A   C A R B S

 Made for 1950’s – 60’s Sachs 502/2, 502/3 

 #  #  price    Jawa#       description                  
  1 23  N/A    09-140  air filter 
  2   4 $28.0 21-050  screw cap M18x1 Bing Solo 25
  3 00  N/A    35-922  float w/needle  bigger than Encarwi
     24  N/A    35-022  float only 
     26  N/A    47-120  float needle only
  4   2 $2.50 45-502  adj nut M6x0.75
  5   9 $22.0 46-042  jet needle 33mm 2-mark
     10none  46-031  jet needle 31mm
  6   1 $5.00 50-042  adjuster M6x0.75
  7   8 $3.00 57-200  needle clip Bing Sachs 6
  8   6 $10.0 60-300  throttle spring Bing Sachs 8 
 8a  7 $3.00 57-023  plate/washer Bing Sachs 7
  9 20  N/A    61-469  air box clamp/clip
10 11  N/A    22-150  slide Ø14.5 “24” slot faces intake 
10 12  N/A    22-151  slide Ø14.5 “32” slot faces intake
10 12 $28.0 22-sub  slide Ø14.5 “16” Bing Solo 20
11 03  N/A    32-032-101 float lid w/seat
11a 5  N/A    65-720  seal ring
12 13  N/A    44-931-101/62  main jet 
12 13  N/A    44-931-101/64  main jet
12 13  N/A    44-931-101/66  main jet
14 14  N/A    45-111  needle jet 
15 15  N/A    45-112  needle jet
16 16 $2.00 65-143  seal washer 10 x 14
17 17  none  50-148  plug M10x1 
19 19 $35.0 26-625  filter cap metal, not replica
21 21  N/A    65-775  seal 
22 22  N/A    65-750  seal
     25  N/A    40-420  clamp screws (2)  on some versions
27 27 $1.50 49-020  cottor pin Bing Puch 31
28 28  N/A    40-430  locking screw
29 29  N/A    60-020  primer spring
31 31  N/A    48-925  primer/tickler
33 33  N/A    40-413  float screws (2)
34 34 $3.00 idle screw M5x0.8 Bing Puch 16
35 35 $3.00 idle screw spring   Bing Puch 17

 

Bing Jawa 1/12/315

Bing 1/12/315

 

 

 

 

 

Bing Jawa 1/12/325

Bing 1/12/325

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bing 1/12/169

Bing Jawa 1-12-239 replica

Bing 1/12/239 replica

Originally all metal, this carburetor and intake silencer was made for the early Sachs 502 vertical cylinder moped engine, 1,2, or 3 speed, kick start or pedals, from the 1950’s and 1960’s. The name Bing “Jawa” should be called Bing “Sachs 502”, since it fits those engines like a glove. Then Bing “Sachs” here should be Bing “Sachs 504/505 A”, to be more correct, globally.

There is no choke slide that blocks the air like on other Bings. Instead the primer holds the float down until gasoline overflows into the venturi. That provides the rich mixture for cold starting.

Sachs Saxonette 1950's -60's moped engine with early Bing carburetor

1960’s Sachs 502/2
Bing carb made for it

1965 Hercules moped with Sachs 2-speed grip-shift engine

1965 Hercules moped
Sachs 502/2 (2-speed)

50’s Sachs 502/3 (3-spd)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jawa used this classic German carburetor from 1979 to 1983, only after it was obsolete, and only on their highest power 1.7kW models. Those were the 40km/h (25mph) Supreme 2, type 207-394 (Babetta 207-504 in Europe), and the 50km/h (30mph) Supreme 3, type 207-392 (X 30 207-385 in Europe). All other Jawa Babetta models were 1.1kW or less, 40km/h (25mph) or less, with a smaller 9mm Jikov 2909 carburetors.

1982 Jawa Supreme 2

1982 Jawa Supreme 2
type 207-394 (Canada)

1979 Jawa X30 (Euro model)

1979 Jawa X30
type 207-385 (for Euro)

 

Apparently most, if not all, of the USA models of “Supreme 2” and “Supreme 3” have the 9mm Jikov carburetors, not the 12mm Bing. Of about 20 Jawa Supreme 2 and 3, found on the internet, all had 9mm Jikov carbs. Only the two at left had 12mm Bings. Yet the Bing “Jawa” carb is in the later 207-300 series American Jawa Parts Catalog.

 

 

 


Bing Solo

December 11, 2020

bing crown solo  4.  B I N G   S O L O
8 or 10 mm, clamp size 16 mm

Solo Bing  
Left is Columbia parts list 1 to 29. Right is Odyssey parts list 1 to 31.

fig  price  Odyssey#  description
00  N/A    23 00 341 carburetor Bing 1/10/112      
01  N/A    00 04 302 vinyl tubing 14 x 2 x 178
02  N/A    20 74 597 intake silencer
03 $22.0 25 00 326 air filter insert
04  N/A    00 66 132 intake silencer clamp
05 $15.0 05 10 658 float slotted type
06 $15.0 05 10 657 float needle for slotted
07 $8.00 05 10 115 float bowl
08 $3.50 05 10 218 bowl gasket
09 $10.0 05 10 132 main jet 58  
10 $15.0 05 10 460 needle jet 2.12
11 $12.0 05 10 100 fuel line nipple M8 x 0.75
00 $20.0 00 00 000 inlet swivel type assy
12 $1.00 05 10 210 seal washer 8
13 $3.00 05 10 461 idle screw M5-0.8
14 $3.00 05 10 462 screw spring
15 none  05 10 463 choke plate
16 none  05 10 464 stud
17 none  05 10 465 safety washer
18 none  05 10 466 torsion spring
19 none  05 10 467 pivot screw
20 $33.0 05 10 468 throttle slide Ø14.5 “16” see photo above
21 none  05 10 469 jet needle 31mm 1-mark
22 $3.00 05 10 470 needle holder
23 $3.00 05 10 471 washer 
24 $10.0 05 10 472 slide spring Ø11 x 36
25 $28.0 05 10 473 top cover M18 x 1.0, M6 x 0.75
26 $5.00 05 10 185 cable adjuster M6 x 0.75
27 $2.50 05 10 127 adjuster nut M6 x 0.75
00 $1.00 00 18 181 #28 screw M6 x 12 hex?
00   none 20 74 618 #29 carburetor cover
28 $4.00 05 10 189 #30 float hinge pin
29 $6.00 05 10 456 #31 clamp screw M5 x 15

Bing 1/10/112
Bing 1/10/112 for Solo/Colombia 40kmh (26mph)

 

Bing 1-8-102 w/air box, for Solo 25kmh (16mph)
Bing 1-8-102 with air box, for Solo 25kmh (16mph)

 

Solo Odyssey motor

Bing 1/10/112 carb on Solo 255 motor

 

This carburetor is for low powered mopeds (mofas), case-reed-valve engines, that position the carburetor way down almost below the engine. The choke is remote, by cable. There is no primer (because you could not reach it if there was). Otherwise it is very close to the Kreidler Bing, with the same size Ø16 mount, Ø14.5 slide (but a different slot position), same float, float needle, float bowl, M5 idle screw, needle, needle jet, and M3.5 main jet (but different numbers).